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Date:	10/30/99 8:59:29 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 31 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1283<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Traveller: World of Darkness? (Was Re: Attention William Hostman)<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe <BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: Ringworld vs MiGE/CoD<BR>
Re: TML Members as resources<BR>
Re: Ringworld vs MiGE/CoD<BR>
Re: Tust say "no" to lhy for Jump drives<BR>
Re: Wizard of Oz (Was Re: Traveller economics)<BR>
Re: Just say no to lhyd for jump drives<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe <BR>
It's not "Yanks in Space"<BR>
smelly ships<BR>
The Alderson Drive -<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:03:24 -0700<BR>
From: "Shawn Campbell" <shawn@electricstitch.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller: World of Darkness? (Was Re: Attention William Hostman)<BR>
<BR>
This name intrigues me... what's Traveller World of Darkness?<BR>
<BR>
Shawn Campbell<BR>
shawn@electricstitch.com<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 5:36 PM<BR>
Subject: Attention William Hostman<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hey william.  did you get my message requesting the Traveller World of<BR>
Darkness?<BR>
> i am still interested in it if you still don't mind sending it to me.<BR>
Please?<BR>
> ----------------------------------------------<BR>
> he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
><BR>
>       Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:12:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe <BR>
<BR>
From: Thomas Schoene <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>     You know what I have found works really well to simulate the CoDo<BR>
>> setting, is Leading Edge Games.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>At the risk of starting a system war, I'd say GURPS would handle the whole<BR>
>setting almost effortlessly.  Like Leading Edge, it's a reasonably<BR>
>realistic system as befits the decidedly realistic feel of Pournelle's<BR>
>books.  And GURPS already has the rules in place to handle the appropriate<BR>
>technology.  I just picked up Space 3rd Edition, and I think that one could<BR>
>model the space travel tech used in the CoDominium/MiGE universe with<BR>
>almost no effort (Jump Drive for Alderson Drive, and a moderately powerful<BR>
>total conversion drive for the real-space drive.  Further, the default<BR>
>force screens in GURPS are obviously modeled on the Langston Field (Slow<BR>
>objects can pass through, beams and fast objects are deflected.  Screens<BR>
>accumulate energy levels when hit, glowing in different colors as the<BR>
>levels increase.  Powerful attacks can "blow through" the screen without<BR>
>destroying it. Etc.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Sorry, but look at Leading Edge Games Living Steel and/or Aliens would<BR>
fight the world better, sorry, but Gurps is not reasonably realistic.  Ye<BR>
gods man, you have to roll dice to be able to blow your nose in GURPs, & if<BR>
you do not have the right skills, you might pull off you own nose.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
 Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:48:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
>>Yeah, well the Japanese don't eat cheese. So statistically, you could argue<BR>
>>that we should give up cheese!<BR>
><BR>
>Your argument makes sense only if you can show a connection between<BR>
>cheese and violence in the first place. If you're going to post arguments,<BR>
>please at least try to make them intelligent ones. Not to mention, relevant<BR>
>ones.<BR>
<BR>
Notice the next line in my original post (which you didn't copy):<BR>
correlation is not causation.<BR>
<BR>
I was trying to sarcastically point out that a causal mechanism was needed,<BR>
rather than just a statistical correlation.<BR>
<BR>
>>Kiri can correct me if I'm wrong, but my Japanese friends tell me that<BR>
>>Japan has a much higher level of social control than America. Leave your<BR>
>>trash can out of place on the curb and the "trash lady" comes to warn you.<BR>
>>Keep doing it and the neighbourhood reacts. This factor should be taken<BR>
>>into account.<BR>
><BR>
>Okay, how about an example closer to home? Canadians watch the same<BR>
>violent TV and movies that Americans do. Canada's level of social control<BR>
>is for the most part the same as what one finds in the USA. On the other<BR>
>hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's.<BR>
<BR>
And so begins the Nth TML Flamefest over the Right To Wear Short Sleeves...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:48:27 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
>Canada is still not a valid comparison.  There are still major cultural<BR>
>differences.  Biggest one.  What is the greatest hero ingrained in the two<BR>
>cultures?  Cowboys for US, RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) for Canada.<BR>
>Two entirely different cultural icons that affect the very roots of the two<BR>
>cultures outlooks.  The cowboy always "took care of business", while the<BR>
>Mountie was there to protect you.  The gun is deeply ingrained in the<BR>
>American culture, dating back to the War for Independance.<BR>
<BR>
Yup. One of the vignettes on Canadian TV has the RCMP officer in charge of<BR>
the Yukon (Steele, I believe) facing down an American who's come in with<BR>
gambling gear. Eventually the Yankee goes home, muttering "I coulda shot<BR>
him."<BR>
<BR>
Look at the Klondike Gold Rush to see a good example of Canadian attitudes.<BR>
Anyone entering the country had to show that they had enough food and<BR>
supplies (thus reducing the temptation to survive by theft), strong drink<BR>
and gambling were strictly controlled, and the Mounties had a great deal of<BR>
lattitude in how they interpretted "disorderly behaviour".  Murders and<BR>
theft were few and far between, and no one seemed particularly worried that<BR>
they were being deprived of fundamental liberties.<BR>
<BR>
America was founded on "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness";<BR>
Canada on "peace, order, and good government."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:53:15 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
> > I believe there was something about transplanting Kzin to the<BR>
> > Startrek universe that Niven didn't like wasn't there?<BR>
><BR>
> Odd you should mention that, I was using Alta Vista to search about<BR>
> A-Drives, and bumped into a links page with that as a link. I didn't go<BR>
> there, so it may be dead, but something along those lines is/was out<BR>
there.<BR>
<BR>
Larry Niven was involved in writing a script for the Star Trek _animated_<BR>
series (TOS characters) that involved the ST crew fighting some Kzin for<BR>
possession of a Slaver weapon<BR>
<BR>
I'm not surprsised he didn't like it, it was pretty bad.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:42:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I believe there was something about transplanting Kzin to the<BR>
> Startrek universe that Niven didn't like wasn't there?<BR>
<BR>
Considering that it was *Niven* who did so, I doubt it. <BR>
<BR>
He re-wrote "The Soft Weapon" into the Animated Star Trek episode "The<BR>
Slaver Weapon" (with Spock replacing the Puppeteer!)<BR>
<BR>
The one thing that Niven got *really* POed about was Elf Sternberg<BR>
writing a story involving kinky Kzinti.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:41:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The "physics" of Alderson Dives were worked out in detail by Dan Alderson<BR>
> from CalTech to Jerry's requirements , as well as how to locate Alderson<BR>
> points, and this was all explained in one of Jerry's articles in Galaxy,<BR>
> "Building the Mote In God's Eye" which was later republished in the<BR>
> collection "A Step Further Out", which in itself is a wonderful quick<BR>
> reference for all sorts of Travelleresque stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Alas, there aren't enough details to calculate Alderson points. <sigh><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:17:49 -0500<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworld vs MiGE/CoD<BR>
<BR>
On 10/30/99 at 06:30 PM,  "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>I think the MiGE/CoD universe would be a great place to play, but it<BR>
>>needs a well thought out setup.  I don't think either Pournelle or<BR>
>>Nivin rpg, or have any interest in rpging.  I'd also lay you odds<BR>
>>that they would want a nice hefty licensing fee to use their<BR>
>>background in anything commercial.  I don't even know if it would be<BR>
>>legal to develop something non-commercial based on the MiGE universe<BR>
>>for more than personal use.<BR>
<BR>
>>It certainly *would* be an interesting project.<BR>
<BR>
>If that is the same universe containing Ringworld, it's already been<BR>
>a chaosium liscence.... Tho I myself would like to see more<BR>
>(especially if The Smoke Ring is also in the same universe...)<BR>
<BR>
No, different universes.  Mote in God's Eye is in the universe with<BR>
King David's Spaceship and Falkenberg's Legion.  It's mainly<BR>
Pournelle's playground where he told us his "Christian Johnny"<BR>
stories.  MiGE is set during the second empire era..I think...which<BR>
puts it several thousand years in the future.  Mankind has spread to<BR>
thousands of stars, had an empire collapse, gone through a "long<BR>
night" and now a second empire is reestablishing itself. <BR>
<BR>
Ringworld is in Niven's "Known Space" universe with Beowolf Shaffer,<BR>
the Kzin, Protectors and the Puppeteers.  The War World series about<BR>
the Saurens is set here...right?<BR>
<BR>
Smoke Ring, *might* be in set in Known Space, but I don't think it<BR>
is. There was a sequel to The Smoke Ring a few years ago, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:38:51 -0500<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources<BR>
<BR>
Rob Brady wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 02:13 PM 10/29/99 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
> >Here I am in all my glory<BR>
> ><BR>
> >854996<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Computer-1, Jack-O-T-1,<BR>
> >Bow combat-0<BR>
> <BR>
> (I am talking CT speak now)<BR>
> You are the most realistic person I've seen. Remember that characters<BR>
> generally get one or two skills per term.<BR>
> initial term of service (18-21): 2 skills<BR>
> every other term (22-whatever/4): 1 skill<BR>
> on promotion (you define this): 1 skill<BR>
> on commission (you define this): 1 skill<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the problem with taking Book 1 as your guide is that senior<BR>
NCOs (such as myself) are given only one skill per term of service after<BR>
the first.  <tongue-in-cheek> After all, Sergenat Major Calvin never<BR>
received a commission, therefore he _obviously_ didn't learn<BR>
anything.... </tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
Anyway, our (currently on hiatus) campaign uses T4, which gives credit<BR>
for background skills, as well as providing skills nearly on a par with<BR>
Books 4 and 5.<BR>
<BR>
I'll put this on the stove, albeit on the back burner (college and Rob<BR>
Prior's grading situation being on the front burners).  I should have<BR>
something in the next week, to demonstrate the possible skills of a<BR>
senior combat support (Military Intelligence branch) NCO.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:53:06 -0500<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworld vs MiGE/CoD<BR>
<BR>
Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> No, different universes.  Mote in God's Eye is in the universe with<BR>
> King David's Spaceship and Falkenberg's Legion.  It's mainly<BR>
> Pournelle's playground where he told us his "Christian Johnny"<BR>
> stories.  MiGE is set during the second empire era..I think...which<BR>
> puts it several thousand years in the future.  Mankind has spread to<BR>
> thousands of stars, had an empire collapse, gone through a "long<BR>
> night" and now a second empire is reestablishing itself.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ringworld is in Niven's "Known Space" universe with Beowolf Shaffer,<BR>
> the Kzin, Protectors and the Puppeteers.  The War World series about<BR>
> the Saurens is set here...right?<BR>
<BR>
The Saurons are an extension of the CoDo setting (note that the WarWorld<BR>
series deals heavily with the former CoDo world of Haven, and that there<BR>
is at least one Sauron story [sadly, I don't have it ready-to-hand, so I<BR>
don't have the title ready] set on the CoDo prison world of Tanith).<BR>
<BR>
The Kzin, OTOH, are a part of Niven's "Known Space" stories, as opposed<BR>
to Pournelle's CoDo and beyond stories.<BR>
<BR>
_The Mote in God's Eye_ _is_ an extension of the CoDo/First Empire<BR>
future history.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:12:24 -0400<BR>
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Tust say "no" to lhy for Jump drives<BR>
<BR>
DaveShayn wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Having said that an idea on how to get the pc's to land on a regular<BR>
basis has just hit me. This is based on the description of the air filter <BR>
problems on the type S scout from Suplement 7.<BR>
<BR>
The air/water recycling that takes place on a starship has a limited<BR>
cappacity to work after a short period of time, Say 1 month with single <BR>
occupancy two weeks or so with double occupancy. After that time<BR>
The air begins to stink to high heaven and the recycled water begins to <BR>
taste like it's primary source material.<BR>
<BR>
These problems get worse as time goes by with stench building upon <BR>
stench untill it becomes unbearable. Simply opening the locks to a <BR>
breathable atmosphere for a day or two and flushing the recyc <BR>
echanisms will solve the problem in most cases.<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
This would limit travel to uninhabited star systems quite a bit - <BR>
remember, most star systems don't feature planets with naturally<BR>
breathable atmospheres, most of this "opening the locks to a<BR>
breathable atmosphere" will be done in someone else's docking bay.<BR>
Say a starbase, or domed city, either of which may be a large <BR>
enough facility to support an advanced recyc system (and would<BR>
require such a system anyway).<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:36:48 -0400<BR>
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Wizard of Oz (Was Re: Traveller economics)<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> The Mother goose nursery rhymes are also said to be originally of a<BR>
> political bent, but the only paralells I can find are possibly, Peter,<BR>
> Peter Pumpkin Eater = Peter the Great, and George III = Humpty Dumpty<BR>
<BR>
Try "Mary, Mary, quite contrary..." Apparently this rhyme was about <BR>
Queen Mary I and her habit of changing favourites (and removing the <BR>
heads of the old ones).<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
An oddity I heard of - a rumor that "Sing a song of sixpence" was<BR>
a theives' cant recruiting notice for pirates. The "Maid" "hanging<BR>
out the clothes" referred to a ship getting her canvas ready for a<BR>
voyage, the "King" was the pirate himself, "counting out his money"<BR>
referred to the wealth he'd be paying to experienced buccaneers, etc.<BR>
It seemed a bit of a stretch, but I guess if you'll be singing it under<BR>
the ears of the King's Men you've got to be obscure.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:46:07 -0400<BR>
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Just say no to lhyd for jump drives<BR>
<BR>
Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
>That could be a very scary invention for a system defense force to<BR>
>develop. "OK, park that asteroid right about *here*."<BR>
 <BR>
I don't know. The odds against anyone being able to park an asteroid<BR>
at any particular spot 150 diameters out from a planet at a week's<BR>
notice are literally astronomical.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
If you could accurately determine when the ship is due, intersecting<BR>
that location at that time with a good sized mass shouldn't be a <BR>
problem, in a TU with the standard "magic carpet" maneuver drives.<BR>
<BR>
If you can't quite tell when to expect the incoming, it'll get trickier.<BR>
How is the jumpspace phenomena known as an incoming ship<BR>
moving with relation to the star system? Does it even have a <BR>
corresponding realspace location that one can resolve to intercept,<BR>
or does it's location only make sense in terms of jumpspace<BR>
navigation?<BR>
<BR>
Jump space, the final frontier... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:42:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe <BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
> From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe <BR>
> Date: Saturday, 30 October, 1999 10:12 PM<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Thomas Schoene <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net><BR>
> Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >>     You know what I have found works really well to simulate the CoDo<BR>
> >> setting, is Leading Edge Games.<BR>
> >><BR>
> ><BR>
> >At the risk of starting a system war, I'd say GURPS would handle the<BR>
whole<BR>
> >setting almost effortlessly.  Like Leading Edge, it's a reasonably<BR>
> >realistic system as befits the decidedly realistic feel of Pournelle's<BR>
> >books.  And GURPS already has the rules in place to handle the<BR>
appropriate<BR>
> >technology.  I just picked up Space 3rd Edition, and I think that one<BR>
could<BR>
> >model the space travel tech used in the CoDominium/MiGE universe with<BR>
> >almost no effort (Jump Drive for Alderson Drive, and a moderately<BR>
powerful<BR>
> >total conversion drive for the real-space drive.  Further, the default<BR>
> >force screens in GURPS are obviously modeled on the Langston Field (Slow<BR>
> >objects can pass through, beams and fast objects are deflected.  Screens<BR>
> >accumulate energy levels when hit, glowing in different colors as the<BR>
> >levels increase.  Powerful attacks can "blow through" the screen without<BR>
> >destroying it. Etc.)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>     Sorry, but look at Leading Edge Games Living Steel and/or Aliens<BR>
would<BR>
> fight the world better, sorry, but Gurps is not reasonably realistic.  Ye<BR>
> gods man, you have to roll dice to be able to blow your nose in GURPs, &<BR>
if<BR>
> you do not have the right skills, you might pull off you own nose.<BR>
<BR>
I really don't want to get in a pissing match about systems today.  But<BR>
that's about the least informed criticism of GURPS that I ever heard.  I'll<BR>
take GURPS' wide skill set over Leading Edges ballistic model masquerading<BR>
as a game system any day.  (And yes, I've played Living Steel, or at least<BR>
tried.)    IMO, any system that wants me to count the number of screws in a<BR>
gadget I want to build is not playable (Living Steel).<BR>
<BR>
Tom Schoene<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:48:21 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com><BR>
Subject: It's not "Yanks in Space"<BR>
<BR>
Silly players...Not every planet has a Bill of Rights and an ACLU...<BR>
<BR>
One of the players in my game was expecting the planetary cops to act like <BR>
American cops.  His brother is a LEO and he knows their limitations.  Too <BR>
bad he was on Phlume and not in New England.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
This planet's legal system runs more like Japan, which partial owes it's <BR>
low crime rate to a waiting period on lawyers.<BR>
You can be held several days without access to legal council.  Time for the <BR>
police to talk to you about the errors of your ways.<BR>
<BR>
One of the other players cut my fun short by playing the 'rich & powerful <BR>
patron' trump card.  :-(<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free<BR>
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be<BR>
infringed.  -- http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:12:55 EDT<BR>
From: MadVargr@aol.com<BR>
Subject: smelly ships<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/30/99 9:57:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time, <BR>
smithw@hartwick.edu writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The air/water recycling that takes place on a starship has a limited<BR>
 cappacity to work after a short period of time, Say 1 month with single <BR>
 occupancy two weeks or so with double occupancy. After that time<BR>
 The air begins to stink to high heaven and the recycled water begins to <BR>
 taste like it's primary source material.<BR>
 <BR>
 These problems get worse as time goes by with stench building upon <BR>
 stench untill it becomes unbearable.  >><BR>
<BR>
I can't help but think that it wouldn't be that bad in the far future, as it <BR>
relates to air and water recycling.  But I like the whole idea you mentioned <BR>
above.   It makes for great role-playing.  I would believe that those in the <BR>
ship may not even notice it as much as those exposed to it when they open the <BR>
hatch.  If it is as gradual as I would expect.  <BR>
"What smells worse than a vargr in the summer?"<BR>
"An Imperial Navyman year-round."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:17:53 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: The Alderson Drive -<BR>
<BR>
OK, as a couple of people requested it, here's the description of how the<BR>
Alderson drive works from Pournelle's "Galaxy" article<BR>
<BR>
/*******************<BR>
<BR>
"The most important technological features of the [Second] Empire were<BR>
previously published in other stories : the Alderson drive and the Langston<BR>
Field.<BR>
<BR>
The Alderson drive is consistent with everything prfesently known about<BR>
physics [at the time of writing-frankie]. It merely assumes that additional<BR>
discoveries will be made in about thirty years at CalTech ( as a tip o' the<BR>
hat to Dan Alderson). The key event is the detection of a "fifth force"<BR>
<BR>
There are four known forces inmodern physics: two sub-nuclear forces<BR>
responsiible respectively for alpha and beta decay; electromagnetism, which<BR>
includes light; and gravity. The Alderson force then, is the fifth, and it<BR>
is generated by thermonuclear reactions.<BR>
<BR>
The force has little effect on our universe; in fact it is barely<BR>
detectable. simultaneous wit the discovery of the fifth force, however, we<BR>
postulate the discovery of a second universe in point-to-point congruence<BR>
with our own. The "continuum universe" differs from the one we're used to in<BR>
tat there are no known quantum effects there.<BR>
<BR>
Within that universe particles may travel as fast as they cn be accelerated;<BR>
and the fifth force exists to accelerate them.<BR>
<BR>
You cna get from one universe to another. For every particle in our universe<BR>
there can be created a "correspondence particle" in the continuum universe.<BR>
In order for your constrct to go into and emerge fromthe continuum universe<BR>
without change you must have som complex machinery to hold everything<BR>
together and prevent your ship - nd crew - from being disorganized into<BR>
elementary particles.<BR>
<BR>
Corespondence particles can be boosted to speeds faster than light : in<BR>
fact, to speeds nearly infinite as we measure them. Of course they cannot<BR>
emerge into our universe at such speeds: they have to lose their energy to<BR>
emerge at all. More on that in a moment.<BR>
<BR>
There ae severe conditions to entering and leaving the continuum universe.<BR>
to emerge from the continuum universe you must exit with precisely the same<BR>
potential energy (measured in terms of the fifth force, not gravity) as you<BR>
entered. You must also have zero kinetic energy relative to a complex set of<BR>
coordinates that we won't discuss here. [note, I'm not sure if this is just<BR>
a handwave to avoid relativity, or if they really did come up with some set<BR>
of coordinates - frankie]<BR>
<BR>
The fifth force is created by thermonuclear reactions: generally, that is,<BR>
in stars. You may travel by usuing it, but only along precisely defined<BR>
lines of equipotential flux: tramways or tramlines.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine the universe as athin rubber sheet, very flat. Now drop heavy rocks<BR>
of different weights onto it. The rocks will distort the sheet, making<BR>
little cone -shaped (more or less) dimples. Now put two rocks reasonably<BR>
close together: the dimples will interesect in a valley. The intersection<BR>
will have a "pass", a region higher than the low points where the rocks<BR>
(stars) lie, but lower than the general level of the rubber sheet.<BR>
<BR>
The route from one star to another through that "pass" is the tramline.<BR>
Possible tramlines lie between each two stars, but they don't always exist,<BR>
because when you add third and fourth stars to the system they may<BR>
interfere, so there is no unique gradient line. If this seems  confusing ,<BR>
don't spend a lot of tinme worrying about it; we'll get to the effects of<BR>
all this in a moment.<BR>
<BR>
You may also imahgine stars to be like hills; move another star closer and<BR>
the hills will intersect. Again, from summit to summit there will be one and<BR>
only one line that preserves the maximum potential energy for hat level.<BR>
Release a marble on oine hill and it will roll down, across the saddle, and<BR>
up the other. That too is a tramline effect. It's generally easier to think<BR>
of the system as valleys rather than hills, because to travel from star to<BR>
star you have to get over the "hump" between the two. The fifth force<BR>
provides energy for that.<BR>
<BR>
You enter from the quantum universe. when you travel in the continuum<BR>
universe you continually lose kineti energy; it "leaks." This can be<BR>
detected in our universe as photons. The effect can be important during a<BR>
space battle. we cut such a space battle from MOTE, but it still exists, and<BR>
we may yet publish it as a novella.<BR>
<BR>
To get from the uantum to the continuum universe you must supply power, and<BR>
this is available only in quantum terms. when you do this you turn yourself<BR>
into a correspondence paeticle; go across the tramline; and come out at a<BR>
point on the other side where your potential energy is equal to what you<BR>
entered with, plus zero kinetic energy (in terms of the fifth force and<BR>
comples reference axes [ there's that handwave again - frankie])<BR>
<BR>
For those bored by the last few paragraphs, take heart; we'll leave the<BR>
technical details and get on with what it all means.<BR>
<BR>
Travel by Alderson Drive consists of getting to the proper Alderson Point<BR>
and turning on the Drive [ Note that the "technical" description implies<BR>
there is a continuous "line" of such points between each pair of stars, but<BR>
that seems to be ignored here - frankie]<BR>
Energy is used. You vanish, to reappear in an immeasurably short time at the<BR>
Alderson Point in another star system some light years away. If you haven't<BR>
done everything right, or aren't at the Alderson Point, you turn on your<BR>
drive and a lot of energy vanishes. You don't move. (In fact you do move,<BR>
but you instantaneously reappear in the spot where you started.)"<BR>
<BR>
/*******************<BR>
<BR>
Jerry goes on to talk about the societal effects of this, very similar to<BR>
Traveller, but frankly, after reading through that description it seems to<BR>
me there are as many holes in that description as there are in Traveller's<BR>
jump drive !<BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav :<BR>
Isn't it obvious ?<BR>
<BR>
Who said that Jump drivesd are the _only_ means of crossing the space<BR>
between stars ?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:30:23 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/30/99 7:05:51 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< is for the most part the same as what one finds in the USA. On the other<BR>
 >hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's. >><BR>
<BR>
I think he's trolling the gun control issue, and I don't want to start the <BR>
d--n flamewar again. I won't change my mind on the issue, and neither will <BR>
the other side...<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: duh; the law levels...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:24:47 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
> > The "physics" of Alderson Dives were worked out in detail by Dan<BR>
Alderson<BR>
> > from CalTech to Jerry's requirements , as well as how to locate Alderson<BR>
> > points, and this was all explained in one of Jerry's articles in Galaxy,<BR>
> > "Building the Mote In God's Eye" which was later republished in the<BR>
> > collection "A Step Further Out", which in itself is a wonderful quick<BR>
> > reference for all sorts of Travelleresque stuff.<BR>
><BR>
> Alas, there aren't enough details to calculate Alderson points. <sigh><BR>
<BR>
I suspect that  may be because Pournelle is guilty of a little fibbing ( or<BR>
Dan Alderson was, and Jerry didn't catch him at it)  when he says it was all<BR>
worked out properly.<BR>
<BR>
If you look at the bit I reproduced (posted seperately) you'll see where I<BR>
note what I think are the points at which the whole explanation falls down.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:47:00 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/31/99 12:31:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!, tiamat@tsoft.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< They<BR>
 think all white people speak English.  And not Japanese. >><BR>
<BR>
They do, though though the French won't admit it...:-). It's good to be on <BR>
the top of the cultural imperialistic pecking order...<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: Have fun with putting PC's on planets that for cultural and/or <BR>
nationalistic reasons hate speaking Galanglic unless they absolutely have to. <BR>
It also helps if the PC's are arrogant about not learning the local <BR>
languages...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:54:38 -0400<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
At 03:46 PM 10/30/99 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> > I believe there was something about transplanting Kzin to the<BR>
> > Startrek universe that Niven didn't like wasn't there?<BR>
><BR>
>Odd you should mention that, I was using Alta Vista to search about<BR>
>A-Drives, and bumped into a links page with that as a link. I didn't go<BR>
>there, so it may be dead, but something along those lines is/was out there.<BR>
<BR>
In the old Star Trek cartoon, the Kzinti did in fact appear (under license <BR>
form Niven).  That's the only video source for this crossover.  The Star <BR>
Fleet Battles wargame has rules/stats for playing Kzinti.<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
	     Gearhead-in-Training<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Gerfalcon Enterprises - GURPS Traveller Ironmongery for the 5th Millenium<BR>
IMTU tc  t4+ tg++ tt? ru ge++ 3i+ c+ jt au@ st+ ls+ pi-(+)<BR>
	ta- he+ kk-- hi+ as++ va++ dr+ so+ zh++ vi+ 0601<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes,  http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
Traveller WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1283<BR>
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